Episode 19: Advice for Phonics Leads with Donna Smith

In the nineteenth episode of The Sounds-Write Podcast, Donna Smith is back to give plenty of helpful and practical advice for Phonics Leads. This episode comes in celebration of the recent release of our Phonics Lead Handbook, a brilliant (and free!) resource that will be any Phonics Lead's guide to all things Sounds-Write. Enjoy!

Some helpful links:
Access the Phonics Lead Handbook and many more useful documents
Alex saying the sounds Sounds-Write Initial Code
Episode 3: Phonics With Fidelity with Naomi Hinton
The Sounds-Write Practitioners' Portal
Sounds-Write's Facebook
Sounds-Write's Instagram
Sign up to our mailing list

Transcript

Laura: 00:02
Hello and welcome to the Sounds-Write podcast. I'm the host, Laura, and in today's episode I'm speaking to Donna Smith. Donna is one of our trainers here at Sounds-Write, and she's going to be speaking to us today about advice for phonic leads in celebration of the recent release of our Phonic Leads Handbook. I hope you enjoy the episode. Hello Donna, welcome to the podcast again.

Donna: 00:27
Yeah, hi Laura. It's nice to be here again.

Laura: 00:30
Yeah. So this is your second time on the podcast, but if anyone can't remember you or hasn't encountered you yet, could you give a little introduction?

Donna: 00:41
Yeah, of course. So I'm one of the Sounds-Write trainers. I was a primary school teacher and a deputy head teacher for twelve years of that. I taught mainly in nursery and in Key Stage 1, but I've also taught in Key Stage 2. And as well as those things, I was a director of a private nursery setting. And within my school. I was phonics lead, amongst many other leadership roles, as I'm sure lots of your listeners who work in schools can imagine.

Laura: 01:08
Brilliant. So we recently released, well, it was a few months ago now, but the Phonics Lead Handbook handbook. And so this podcast is going to be for phonic leads, and a kind of accompaniment to that handbook, and to hopefully point even more people in the direction of that very useful document. And I think we'll talk a little bit more about the Phonics Lead Handbook later. But to start with, what is a phonics lead and why is it such an important role?

Donna: 01:40
Well, it's such an important role because it's really what it's all about, isn't it? Teaching children how to read and spell at school. So I often think of it as like the phonics champion because schools are such busy, busy, busy places and staff have so many responsibilities, as I alluded to with the fact that I had many different roles when I was working in school. That's why we need to have a phonics lead who's going to be a champion. And they champion the importance of reading and spelling. So all teachers, TAs and school leaders, they know it's important. And the phonics lead just helps to make sure that the school is developing excellent knowledge and understanding, developing high quality practice, and communicating with parents and carers and other stakeholders. So this is all with the support of the wider leadership team, of course, and how the role of phonics lead phonics champion looks in day-to-day practice will vary, just as schools vary. So some phonics lead will be senior leaders, like I was. Some will be the English subject leader as well, for example. And some will be other forms of middle leader in a school. Some will be classroom teachers, some will be non-teaching. But what really should be the same is the determination that their school is going to be the very, very best it can be at ensuring that all children attending become proficient readers and spellers.

Laura: 02:52
So you mentioned SLT there. What kind of role does the SLT of a school play in their phonics journey? And how can a phonics lead kind of use this to advocate for an effective phonics strategy?

Donna: 03:06
Yeah, it's a good point. So I mentioned in the last sort of section there, I was saying the phonics lead might be a senior leader themselves, but they might be a middle leader. But regardless of this, the school leadership is key to ensuring that Sounds-Write is effectively implemented across the school. So all the leaders have to have a clear and ambitious vision for embedding Sounds-Write in the school. It needs to be the key strategy to provide high quality and inclusive phonics instruction for all the children that attend and as well as the professional training for all the staff. Now, this needs to be demonstrated through the school's policies, the practices and the values, really, in the everyday life of the school. So our phonics leads need to have a commitment to improving practitioner understanding of Sounds-Write and the curriculum, and to support them in developing their practice in teaching reading and spelling through Sounds-Write. And it isn't about training staff to merely deliver a phonics programme. It's about ensuring that their subject knowledge is really spot on and that they implement the Sounds-Write approach in phonics lessons across the curriculum, really whenever and wherever their students are reading and writing. So the school leaders need to understand the importance of formative assessment so that teachers and TAs are responsive. And the assessment isn't all about data tracking, it's about what we notice, what this tells us, and how we change our planning to meet the needs of the children.

Laura: 04:21
So a key part of the phonic lead's role, as you kind of mentioned briefly there, will be monitoring and coaching their colleagues. So, how would you suggest phonic leads go about doing this? I know it can sound a bit daunting.

Donna: 04:36
Yeah, of course. So in the Phonics Lead Masterclass course, for example, we talk about monitoring fidelity to the programme. So, actually, can I take a few moments to talk about fidelity?

Laura: 04:45
Please do.

Donna: 04:47
So we hear this term fidelity a lot. We mention it, everyone mentions it in the phonics sphere, and the Rose review in 2006 had about it. And then iterations of the reading framework, with 2023 being the latest one, make it really clear that it's all about ensuring progression and avoiding confusion for our students. So if a phonics lead is monitoring fidelity to Sounds-Write, then they'll be looking for things like precise pronunciation of sounds. We have a video of a little boy called Alex saying the sounds really clearly, so I wonder if you could maybe link to that for our listeners? That would be super.

Laura: 05:20
Yes, will do.

Donna: 05:22
Thanks. And so, precise pronunciation for sounds, and then the use of like the honest, accurate and succinct language and the vocabulary of Sounds-Write. So things like 'sounds are represented by spellings, the letters don't make the sounds', and so on. And with this, think about taking care that practices that don't fit a speech-to-print approach of Sounds-Write have no place in the school. So there's no place for spelling rules or resources that take that opposite way, print-speech approach, like sight word flashcards, for example. So the scope and sequence of Sounds-Write needs to be followed for the Initial Code and Extended Code. And phonics leads will make sure, of course, that polysyllabic words are introduced from Unit 4 of the Extended Code, which is usually in Year 1, and the Sounds-Write lessons, used to teach the reading and spelling of curriculum vocabulary, will be used across like Years 3 to 6, so that'll be supporting the etymology and morphology. So we're looking at there, that phonics doesn't end in Year 2. So we don't just teach, you know, the Initial Code in Reception, and then we teach Extended Code across Years 1 and 2, we continue using the Sounds-Write approach all the way across Key Stage 2 with the older students as well. So phonics lead will be monitoring not just in Key Stage 1 and the early years, but also into Key Stage 2. They'll also be looking for, no matter which age group we've got, that phonics sessions are well planned and delivered with good pace, so that the learning is going to move really smoothly from one Sounds-Write lesson within a session to another. And also that all the phonics sessions incorporate an element of review. So going back over something that's been taught before, teaching of the current unit, and also that reading or writing in connected text, which is - I'm sure people listening who use Sounds-Write will know - but either reading some decodable text or doing the Lesson 4a: Dictation at the end of a phonics session. So we want to make sure as well, if you're phonics lead, that you're checking that classroom practitioners are using the Sounds-Write scripts effectively and with increasing confidence over time, of course. So the scripts aren't about them losing their teaching personality to like a robotic delivery, but it is about ensuring the correct language is used and that nothing is added that may increase the cognitive load for our students or cause them some sort of confusion. We also want our phonics leads to be looking out for the consistent use of Sounds-Write's teaching through errors, which we like to describe as mini scripts. So we have our lesson scripts, of course, but we have these mini scripts in the form of teaching through errors, and they can be used anywhere, anytime where the children are reading and writing. So again, it's this idea of an approach. We're not just delivering a programme, we're not just plodding through like a sequence progression, we're actually looking that we're using strategies and approach across the whole curriculum, so that we can help children with their reading and writing wherever they're doing it, and whenever they're doing it in the school day. So you can find out more about what's meant by fidelity in the context of Sounds-Write. And we have a document called Fidelity in Sounds-Write. And also we had Naomi Hinton, our head of training, did a podcast all about fidelity a little while ago. And finally, of course, we've got our Phonics Lead Handbook handbook, which has a section about fidelity.

Laura: 08:26
If you're a phonics lead and you haven't looked at the handbook yet, please do, because it's just such a great resource. It links out to all the documents you could ever need to do Sounds-Write really, really well. Um, yeah, so thank you for talking a bit about fidelity there and what we mean by fidelity. And so, how can the phonics lead actually take those practical steps to make sure that it is being delivered with fidelity and kind of develop and strengthen the practice in their school?

Donna: 08:58
So the first thing is to go back to that idea of the phonics champion, and the phonics lead really has to unapologetically be that phonics champion in the school. So be that reminder that the school has a commitment to helping each and every child become a proficient reader and speller. I can't emphasise enough the difference being able to read and spell well can make to a child's life. So we think about access to the full curriculum, primary school and beyond, and access to reading for pleasure, access to future academic and life opportunities. It's really all about all of those children, all those students having as many doors of opportunity open to them as possible. And it starts with being able to read. So, you asked for practical steps, though. So what can a phonics lead actually do in their role to ensure this fidelity and to be that champion? Well, monitoring is key. We've already mentioned the monitoring, and right at the start you said about it might seem a bit daunting, but it doesn't need to be, because our monitoring can refer to self or peer monitoring. And the phonics lead plays a really key role in developing the culture of collaboration of whole-school self improvement, again with the support of those senior leaders that we talked about earlier. So monitoring needs to be an alongside you activity, not a done to you activity. So we're thinking about observations by mutual agreement, for example, and then, of course, having the really important feedback and follow-up after that. And the follow-up can take many forms. So, for example, a phonics lead might arrange for some of their colleagues to observe them, or for other members of staff to observe a specific element in good practice in one of the classrooms. And they might also organise and plan some deliberate practice.

Laura: 10:34
Wonderful. Could you tell us a bit more about what deliberate practice is?

Donna: 10:39
Yeah, of course. So there was actually a quote in the 2022 reading framework. It didn't make it into the 2023 one, but I think it's a nice bit to put here. So it said that 'teachers are like tennis players and they develop most quickly when they receive frequent feedback and opportunities to practise'. And deliberate practice is all about the opportunity. So deliberate practice is the breaking down of a skill into its component parts and then working intensively on one of those parts and then putting the parts back together. So the purpose is to practise teaching routines. So, for example, to target individual Sounds-Write lessons to ensure all the component parts are included, taught with fidelity. We need to ensure consistency, accuracy, and we need to have all the teachers to become excellent practitioners and, of course, to maximise the learning for all the students. Now, due to the many things that go on in a lively classroom that a teacher has to be ready to respond to, it's really important to get our lesson scripts as automatic as possible. So we encourage practising the script step by step outside of the class, because that helps to reduce the imposition of cognitive load for the teacher, and helps us to develop that automaticity in the delivery. And that then means that the teacher is going to be able to deal with all the other things that happen and take place in a lesson that need their attention. So really what I'm trying to say is, if teachers know the script, then their conscious attention can be on what the actual children are doing in terms of thinking about formative assessment. We can be noticing what the children are doing, responding rather than constantly thinking consciously in our head about, 'oh, what's the next step?'. And think like when we're driving, I'm sure, maybe it's just me, but hopefully lots of listeners have had that experience of, you know, you're driving and all of a sudden you'll be like, 'oh, how did I get here?' type thing. Because your attention hasn't had to focus on moving the gear stick or, you know, changing things, whatever, you're just doing it automatically because you're really, really experienced at it and maybe you were singing along with the radio or something like that. So it's a bit like that. We need to just have developed the script, our knowledge of it, so that we deliver it in quite an automatic way and then we can have our attention on everything else that's going on. So, deliberate practice, then, that might come out of monitoring, so you might sort of spot a need when you're doing some monitoring, some observations, and then you can do some deliberate practice or organise deliberate practice with that particular teacher or a group of teachers. But phonics lead can also plan for deliberate practice. Something that happens regularly, for example, part of staff meeting time is a great idea, if you can allow for that. So it doesn't have to be a massive undertaking or task, it can be in little snippets. So it depends what's manageable for your school setting. To help phonics leads organise that, though, and organise your thinking about how they could do it in their school. We have a practice map document which can help plan, so it's linked to from our section in the Phonics Lead Handbook called Ongoing Training, but it's also a document which is available outside of that. So I think, Laura, that one can be linked to in the show notes, if you can.

Laura: 13:40
Okay, great, I'll put it in the show notes as well, then. So coordinating the school's approach to phonics includes supporting struggling readers, and I guess that's going to be a major part of a school's approach. What can phonics leads do to support these students and ensure that effective interventions are being carried out in the school?

Donna: 14:02
So I think part of the Phonics Lead role, of course, we've said about working with senior leaders, and within that it's about working with the special educational needs coordinator, or whatever that role is called in your school. There's different words, I'm sure, from all around the world, but here in England we call it the SENCO, generally. So we want the phonics lead to be working with colleagues, don't we? So we're working with the teachers in terms of the deliberate practice and improving their practice, and then we also want to be working with the classroom teachers, senior leaders and the SENCO. If there are any vulnerable students in the school who need extra help and support. I say if there are, there usually are, aren't there? In all schools, we'll have some children who are going to need some extra help. It's all about extra practice, really. So we're looking at the phonics leads, along with the other leaders and the SENCO and the school, thinking about what is the quantity, first of all, of what these students are getting. So if we've got someone who is struggling to learn to read and spell well, then we need to be thinking about, first of all, how much are they getting? So we've got the whole-class phonics session happening, but how much extra are they getting is the first thing, because obviously we want to give them as much as we can. And the second part of that is thinking about quality. So, who is actually doing the interventions? Because, you know, an intervention isn't going to solve it for these children. It needs to be with the best available person that it possibly can be in that school. So sometimes it's about thinking how you organise the school's timetable and how you organise the staff, so that those vulnerable learners get the very best person and they get the very most in terms of quantity that you can give them. So I'd say, we say about ensuring effective interventions in the Phonics Lead Handbook, and my little key words for that is always quality and quantity. So think of those two cues when you're a phonics lead and you're thinking about the provision for your most vulnerable learners, that's a really key thing. And part of it as well will be working with parents, of course, and that might just be sort of providing some help for when the class teacher is going to be speaking to a parent about their child's needs, for example. And it can also be about supporting the parents to do the best job that they can at home to support their child. So sharing information about the school's approach to reading and spelling is really helpful, of course. So you'd be talking about Sounds-Write and what actually happens in class and how the children are taught. And thinking about then, about the concepts and the skills and giving parents a little bit of information about that. A really good idea is to direct parents to the course that we have, of course, for Help Your Child to Read and Write, which is our course for parents and carers. It's completely free. And that's a great course for giving parents that sort of knowledge to help their child. And there's example videos in that of someone reading with a child. So it gives them that, you know, they can actually see, 'oh, that's how I could do at home as well', and just giving them some information. Because knowledge is power really, in that way, isn't it? If they know how things should be going for their child, then they also know when it's not going well and they can look at ways of helping.

Laura: 16:55
Great, thank you. I think another part of the phonics leads role is also making sure that new staff have been trained as well as, obviously you mentioned there, making sure that interventions are carried out by the sort of best person for that job. And that person will always have been trained in that school's phonics approach. So, yeah, the phonics lead will need to kind of keep an eye on who's trained, make sure that everyone has good subject knowledge, keeping people up to date with Sounds-Writes updates and anything new that they should know about.

Donna: 17:33
Yeah. So I think that's, part of the role is making sure that you yourself as phonics lead, are up to date and that your subject knowledge is good. And I always think that -' you know, I once got introduced on a webinar session I was doing to people as an expert, which made me laugh a little bit and I thought, 'oh, goodness, no, don't put me on that kind of stool' - because I think that's the thing, we're all still learning, and we've all got so much to learn about phonics and reading as well. I would never say I know everything, despite sort of living and breathing Sounds-Write as my whole job. Which I know for phonics leads, you've got your whole job, which is much wider than just being a phonics lead or just teaching phonics for pretty much all of you, I'd imagine, there's a lot of other things going on with your actual job. So, I always think the thing is to be willing to learn, we all have to be willing to learn, and phonics leads as part of that. So we're looking at, you know, doing the initial training isn't the end of training, it's not the end of learning about how children read, it's not the end of learning about how to do Sounds-Write. So our phonics leads should be looking at things like our portal videos, joining in with our webinars. They're completely free, of course. Sign up to the Facebook group if you're a Facebook user, because that's a really active, enthusiastic, full of questions kind of place to be to learn more. Even if you're not going to post things, you'll learn a lot from reading what other people do post. Making sure you read our newsletters, so the Phonics Toolkit that comes through is really helpful. And obviously the Phonics Lead Handbook, which is kind of what brought me here today. So making sure that you have that, you access that, you use that. There's lots of links to other documents from that, so there's lots of other things to learn. There's one, which is a Subject Knowledge document, which gives a really good kind of if you're going to read a few things, then read these to help develop your subject knowledge. And so there's a few books, a few articles, a few podcast type things for you to go and look at under various subject headings within that Subject Knowledge document. So I'd really recommend that you have a look at that one, phonics leads. And the other thing is that, how do you then kind of support and encourage your other colleagues to do the same sort of thing? And I think that's part of you leading by example there. But it's sharing things with them. So, you know, when a newsletter does come out from Sounds-Write, do you send it on? Do you mention it in a staff meeting or a staff briefing? When there's a webinar coming up, have you signed up to Eventbrite to get the alerts when there is one? And then do you say to other teachers, when the Initial Code refresher one's on, for example, do you say to your Reception teachers, 'oh, here's a great one that you might want to take part in'. If you've got the support of senior leaders for maybe rearranging staff meeting times and things, you could use a bit of them in those times, as well. So it's just always looking for ways to update yourself and keep in touch with Sounds-Write and what's going on. So you mentioned something about, obviously, letting colleagues know if anything's new, and I guess it's flagging up to any phonics leads out there who haven't heard about the handbook yet, - that is quite new - so there's something new to make sure you, as phonics lead, have. But we've also got the new Portal, Laura, which you know an awful lot about, being the main person leading on that. So you might want to say something about that. But I would just like to say that it's a great and valuable resource and phonics leads should definitely be accessing it, and making sure that their school colleagues are using it too. Do you want to add anything about the Portal, Laura? Because that is something quite new.

Laura: 20:46
Yeah, sure. I know that if you've already got your resources and stuff like that, it's kind of hard to switch onto something new, but it's definitely worth having a look at what we've got on there because I think there's stuff that will make it really easy to deliver it with fidelity. Stick to the right word list, the right units, things like that, we've got lots of interactive activities in there. And we're actually going to release a new version in a couple of months, which is exciting, which will build on that even more, and hopefully ensure people can deliver it with even greater fidelity than they are already. So yeah, have a look.

Donna: 21:29
Wow. So you heard it here first. A new version is coming up. I think that's great. Thank you. And one thing that's because we always develop new things. So from within the Portal, you can also access the New Practitioners Hub, which existed a little bit before the portal, and that's got great videos. And although it's called New Practitioners Hub, I think it should just be called the 'practitioners hub' in a way, because the videos within that are just really helpful for anyone using Sounds-Write who maybe just wants a refresher. And phonics leads, if you've got anyone who is moving year group, for example, then that's a really great resource for them to access. So you might have a teacher moving like, you know, from Reception to Year 3. And good luck to them, it's going to be a great experience and very different. But do you know what, to get on board with how Sounds-Write would be different, there's Year 3 videos in there, for them getting started in Year 3. And the opposite way around, about someone moving from Year 5 to Reception or to Year 1. And again, those hub videos are just be a great way for them to refresh about Sounds-Write, and get ready to teach in a different year group as well. So, please direct your staff to using those. And I mentioned deliberate practice and those sorts of videos can come in really handy with that. Because, you know, you want to be saying, right, well, maybe we're going to practise Lesson 6, for example, and we're going to do that in the staff meeting. And then you can use the videos, there's Top Tips for Lesson 6, for example, to actually be part of that whole sort of training session, before staff then do look at the script, and then do practise the lesson. So there's lots of resources out there that can help you form quite a good in-school CPD after you've all had the initial Sounds-Write training.

Laura: 22:58
And so much of it is free. So, enjoy.

Donna: 23:01
So much is free! I think that's, that's something, you know, it's that people sometimes say about training. So you're paying for training, but then you access the Portal, the free webinars, the free Facebook group, the free newsletters of course, the Phonics Lead Handbook handbook is just free. The one thing that isn't quite free, though, is the Phonics Lead Masterclass, which I don't think I've - I think I mentioned it briefly when I said about fidelity. So the Phonics Lead Masterclass is a great course for phonics leads who've done the Sounds-Write training, and it takes place on four afternoons. And a great wealth of experience is in there with the different trainers who are involved, and you get the chance to obviously work with other phonics leads from around the country and indeed the world. And that, that does have a cost, of course. So at the minute, I'll give you the current price, it's 275 pounds. But if your school has a package, so if your school has trained five or more people within the next 24 month period from when they started the training, then they would get a free place on that as well. So there is a way to get it for free, but there is a small cost if you're not part of a school package.

Laura: 24:01
And something else that we didn't mention when we were naming all the free things is that we also encourage, we give a free place to head teachers when their staff are training on our course, which is great for getting sort of, you know, that senior leadership team really behind the approach, and really understanding what's going on.

Donna: 24:23
That's a really good point, Laura, because I have, I have mentioned our senior leaders kind of all the way through this podcast. But yeah, we do actually train the head teacher for free. So, your staff has signed up for training - the head teacher can come along for free, either online or in person. So they can choose which version they want to do, what's the easiest for them to do. Because we want the head teacher to really understand the Sounds-Write programme, the phonics approach that we have, so that they know what's going on in their school and can be part of that whole monitoring and collaborative development approach that we want in schools.

Laura: 24:56
So if your head teacher hasn't done the course yet, tell them to go and claim their free place.

Donna: 25:02
Definitely.

Laura: 25:05
Hopefully now we're going to have like hundreds of head teachers flooding to us for free places.

Donna: 25:11
That would be great.

Laura: 25:15
Final question, and I know you touched on this briefly earlier. How can phonics leads get parents and carers involved?

Donna: 25:23
I did touch on this already, didn't I? But yeah, just to reiterate that we think that working with parents carers is going to be key for all things in school, not just phonics. But the home support with reading is really, really valuable and sometimes gives parents that little window into what's going on with their child's learning as well. In the way that they don't have, you know, they don't get to see maybe so much of the Geography that happens, for example, but they're going to see the reading book coming home and they're going to want to listen to their child read. So we can teach the skills and give practice in school, of course. We've talked about that quality and quantity that needs to happen, but we want them to have as much practice as possible. So we really want parents and carers to make time for reading at home. And phonics leads, you can support this by giving information, as I said before. You can tell them how reading and spelling is taught in school, and how they can be supportive listeners of children's reading at home. So, my last podcast was actually about this, so I won't get into repeating myself with lots of things, but you could listen to that episode if you haven't had enough of my voice already, or you could take a break and listen tomorrow. But one thing, again, just to flag up, is that free parent and carer course, which Laura is going to hopefully link to in the show notes for you.

Laura: 26:33
Yes, absolutely. Brilliant. Well, that draws this episode to a close. Thank you so much, Donna, for being here and telling us all about this. It's been lovely to have you on the podcast again.

Donna: 26:47
Thanks, Laura, and thank you for being such a great host. And thank you to all the phonics leads, out there in the schools, doing the great work of being phonics champions.

Laura: 26:55
Absolutely. All right, see you next time.